Robert T Mruczek
Posted 1483774440
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#1
Hi:
J0hn Raff3rty
Posted 1483780200
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#2
Well, the Marquis card which is supposed to be the first ever tobacco card would be on this list.
There were a number of cards for caramel and chocolate sets that if you sent in a completed set to the manufacturer they would send you a giant box of chocolate or a set of ice skates or something. So one card from the set was short-printed in order to reduce the number of winners and drive additional sales. That's why the McKinley and the western uniform card are rare today.
Anonymous
Posted 1483781340
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#3
The four "error" cards in the N2 American Indian Chiefs set come to mind.
Jon Hardgrove
Posted 1483785540
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#4
This is going to be an interesting thread.
As to overall scarcity, I cannot say; but 2 that I personally have found difficult:
(1) Goudey 1937 Vermont license plate (I can't even find anyone that has seen one!!!).
(2) Any values from Bazooka World Famous Stamps. Allegedly a 12 card set, only 8 seem to be known.
Jon.
Anonymous
Posted 1483805400
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#5
Sea Raiders Map, McKinley President, Wild West #25? Those are easy - at least 6 known of each of them.
Tough question to answer as there are so many cards with 1-known example and some less. For example:
T90 Nature: Card #10 still unknown. Not really unusual as there are 30 numbered cards in the set but less than 140 total have been documented. Three of the cards have 2 known examples and three have 3 known examples.
N224 Military: Six of the cards have just 2-4 known examples. Six more with 5-6 known. Of the 12, half have not been offered for sale in last 15 years.
N197 Scenes: Supposedly 11 cards exist. I have seen one example of 4 of them in 20 years.
T128 Indians: 79 cards have not yet been found. Big improvement from 15 years ago when there were 117 cards not yet found. About 30 cards are the only known example.
N6**: Dozens, if not 100's of examples, are the only known card.
N398: I have a card not in the latest WTI guide that came out 2 years ago.
N400 State Seals: About 8 new examples have been discovered in the last 8 years.
T64 Generals: Lee just discovered 10 years ago, now 2 examples. One card just discovered 3 years ago (forget the name).
...............and those are just the sets that I collect...............
Edited to add that N6** means the sets between N600 to N699. Not N6 Allen & Ginter flags. I apologize for the confusion.
jim
Posted 1483881180
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#6
A very generous list from Eric, much appreciated.
I collect mostly candy and gum, and claim there are thousands
of rare cards still to be found. That is one of the beauties
of non-sports, anyone can own a one-of-a-kind card or box or wrapper.
I stumbled upon these a few months ago, a couple bucks for the lot
I dont believe they are check listed. Just one of many many sets out there waiting to be found.
Brian Chidester
Posted 1483886640
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#7
N515. I've never seen a single one offered.
Todd Riley
Posted 1484046660
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#8
This is easy...
Toughest - everything on my want list
Easiest - everything I have for sale!
Anonymous
Posted 1484065020
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#9
How about a variation on this -- What are the rarest or toughest wrappers to find?
I would offer one of them as the first A version of the Indian Gum wrapper with the canoe. In 40 years, I have found only two of them, even though I have probably had about 70+ IG wrappers in the past, and probably still own about 50 of them. Hugh Jones would always buy one from me every time he visited.
Are there any other truly rare wrappers out there?
How about the Canadian Horrors or War last series? The cards in that last series are very tough to find -- so what about the wrapper?
Steve
Les Davis
Posted 1484153580
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#10
Keep this thread going! Food for a future Wrapper "article." Thanks, guys!
boxingcardman
Posted 1484116440
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#11
Some of the Engrav-O-Tint weight machine cards are very tough to find. In particular Bela Lugosi. I have seen only one or two and regret selling the one I did have. I've also had the Buster Crabbe (no hat) on my want list for a long time and I cannot confirm Karloff or two of the Marx Brothers (Harpo and Zeppo).
The cards from this arcade set are very tough, and again, the Lugosi and the Karloff lead the way:
Always a shout out for the Oh Boy Gum cards on any list of rarities:
This entertainment set is brutal and it has a Babe Ruth:
Anything from the Universal Surprise Box is really tough:
This is a very tough strip issue:
There are numerous very tough cards among Exhibits.
The 1926 vaudeville set is ultra rare; most cards I've seen only once or twice and I have only about a dozen (of a presumed 32) cataloged
The Duke Kahanamoku card has shown up under ten times over the 20 years I've been collecting:
Anything from the 1925 freaks and oddities issue is tough; another one I've been cataloging and collecting for years:
The larger sized versions of these 1931 strip cards is tough; I was very pleased to find the Thorpe
Even tougher are the versions of the cards with the tabs. The thin orange Thorpe above is from that version but has the tab removed. Here is what the cards look like with tab:
I suspect the tabs had redemption value at arcades.
These mixed sport and entertainment cards, very rough:
These mid-20s cross-over interest sport and entertainment cards are very tough to find:
Jack J.
Posted 1484118900
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#12
Steve, good expansion of the topic.
Wrapper collecting as a formal hobby is relatively new. For this reason there is less documentation and probably a higher percentage of undiscovered material than with cards. Many wrappers known within the hobby have only one or two examples, and there are most likely more wrappers that are yet to be discovered. Some wrappers have quite a few examples, but because of their popularity, are considered to be rare (Mars Attacks for one). The list of wrappers that I would consider rare is long. They are mostly ones that I don't have (sigh). Here's just a start on what I think are rare.
Suzanna - Shotwell
Explorers of America - Loose Wiles
Flags of Nations - Baltimore Gum
League of Nations - Novelty Gum
Make Faces - Independent Candy
Dare Devils - National Chicle
Fighting Plane - Shelby
United States Heroes Caramels - U.S. Caramels
Yellow Kid Scrip - Pulver
Big Thrill - Goudey
G-Men (high series) - Gum Inc.
Wham Gum - Pulver
Spy Gum (Jeepers Creepers version) - Gumakers
Jets, Rockets, Spacemen 5 Cent - Bowman
Red Menace - Bowman
If anyone disagrees with me on these because they have a stack of them somewhere, let me know.
- Jack J.
jim
Posted 1484134980
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#13
Good list Jack
I might add the following:
Commando Rangers
Guess Who
Do You Know
Jenny Lind Chewing Gum
Mo Jo Chewing Gum
Scharley Questions
Buck Barton
Crime Did Not Pay
MARTY KRIM
Posted 1484136000
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#14
Just a few additional Wrappers that are tough: (sorry if I repeat any already mentioned)..
1959 FLEER INDIANS...
BATTLE..
BIG THRILL BOOKLETS..
DARE DEVILS 1 CENT..
FBI 5 CENTS..
FIGHT THE RED MENACE..
FOTO GUM R92..
JETS ROCKET WITH ASTRONAUT..
MOVIE STARS GUM MAKERS OF AMERICA..
POWER FOR PEACE - BOTH 1 AND 5 CENTS..
SHOTWELL FUNNY FACES..
TARGET MOON 5 CENTS..
TOM MIX GREEN..
WINGS AMERICAN CHICLE..
Not to mention (which I will not) the Topps Test Sets Wrappers..
Jack J.
Posted 1484139360
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#15
Great wrapper additions, Jim and Marty. Looks like I'll be searching the internet for a long, long time to come.
I put my list together based mostly on what I've seen (or not seen) on the internet and info from the Gallery, Chat Board and a couple of collectors. What I have no sense of is wrappers that are socked away in long time collections.
I'd like to see two lists, one of wrappers where there is only one known example and a list of probable wrappers that have not been found yet. An example of the latter would be a Shotwell Molly-O wrapper.
- Jack J.
Jim
Posted 1484144520
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#16
I think four lists would be required because there are
basically two types of wrappers
Wrappers that are cards and wrappers that were packaging
Anonymous
Posted 1484241600
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#17
As has been suggested, it is very difficult to know what wrappers are sitting in collections versus those that are still waiting to be found.
I agree that the above lists are a very good start but if I have the wrapper, I don't really see it as being difficult to find, in most cases.
It would be nice to come up with a list that breaks out and combines:
1 --Truly rare wrappers where only a few are known to exist
2 --Tough wrappers that do not show up frequently
3 --Expensive wrappers that do show up frequently; is Mars Attacks the only one?
Back in the day, large accumulations of wrappers showed up in small boxes; I can't tell you how many times I picked up exactly the same type of groupings. Many times, the collector was saving the wrappers to turn them in for some other form of premium and they never got to do that. I remember vividly picking up a large box of wrappers of Casper, Pirates Bold and Fleer Indians; all in gorgeous condition.
The week later, I watched a guy circle the show room in Norwalk CT until he reached me and what he showed me was wrapper gold (at least to me) -- 25 Canadian Sky birds wrappers with the colorful small biplanes which I agreed to buy instantly. Then he came back later with ten more. But not one other so called dealer in the room was interested in them. Scary -- but how far would they get in the room today until someone bought them? Just because they were old and possibly valuable.
Does anyone remember the amazing East Brunswick sports card show in the 1970s and early 1980s. I always had the first spot in the door (which I refused to part with), and in that room every show was a guy who used to pile up his wrappers 50 to 200 high; and they were all from the 1930s to the 1950s. Now they are all rather expensive and he would sell them for $20 to $50 each back then. You could always make a deal to buy 5 Horrors of War wrappers or similar. It's been a long time but was that Sal Visalli? I just can't remember and I am not certain, but maybe Les Davis knows if Sal was from Jersey. Either way, his display was just so incredible and I always came home with lots of money and wrappers too.
Sorry to ramble, but I have always found wrapper, display box and uncut card sheets the most challenging part of the hobby.
Steve Sabow
Anonymous
Posted 1484227500
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#18
N476 - Mrs GB Miller Celebrities. When American Tobacco Cards by Forbes and Mitchell came out there were just 5 cards known. We are now up to 10 with 3-4 of them only having 1-2 cards known.
I think the true response is that there are 100's and possibly 1000's of cards that were made but not yet discover d. Still sitting in albums or crates waiting for the next family member to come along and find them. I imagine there are also 100's of cards in collections that the collector himself doesn't know that they have the only one.
Les Davis
Posted 1484233920
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#19
That was most likely the irrepressible Sal Visalli, the spark that lit The Wrapper pre-1980. Sal hailed from Waldwick, New Jersey. I would like to hear if Sal is still with us. Anyone?
Anonymous
Posted 1484213940
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#20
Les,
Sal's for sale display would make most collectors and dealers drool, even back then. He was way ahead of the curve. I hadn't heard his name mentioned in many years but I'll never forget him. You could always find John Neuner at his display or mine searching the room for wrappers he needed.
Actually, going back in time about 30+ years at the National in LA, I walked into the room with a large collection of Bazooka Joes from the 1950's, and John bought another batch from me every day for 4 days. I had my whole family with me as it was our first trip to the West coast, and John helped pay for all of our dinners and side trips just from Bazooka Joes.
Life is strange.
Steve
Jeff Shep
Posted 1484237640
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#21
Good thread - and great hearing the history of transactions. I (through several transactions) ended up with the bulk of John Neuner's Bazooka Joe comics, among others. He was a massive collector from what I gather - multiples all around. The bulk of my best material probably originates from him and will never be duplicated. He definitely tapped into the Woody Gelman archives, most likely through his son Richard. Rare obscure 1940's Topps stuff that all had a tinge of amber glue from a scrapbook years ago depleted. Oh to have those books complete... At any rate, after nearly 3 decades of collecting, there's a good portion of material that originated from John that I've never seen offered again. 50-75 Honus Wagners? We'll call that scarce, not rare.
Robert T Mruczek
Posted 1484291160
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#22
Sal always seemed to have the toughest wrappers...never met him, however. I did get to meet John Neuner on multiple occasions back in the 1984-1987 range !!He would show up at the oil company that I worked for in Park Slope, Brooklyn at the time and deliver my purchases in person. Great guy. He sold me a set of "Crusader Rabbit" among others which I regret selling years later.
I wonder if any of you purchased one of his Empire State Building light bulbs ?
As for someone mentioning the multiple categories of expensive wrappers that show up from time to time, citing "Mars Attacks", I have one anecdote to share.
In 1987 and prior someone named Ken Caviness took out a wrapper ad and was selling "Mars Attacks" wrappers for $100 apiece. I spoke with Ken and found out that he had what he described as a "roll" of these. When I received the wrapper from him it was crease-free...I never saw anything like it, and apparently he had something like 20 remaining at the time. So this wrapper in high grade is out there, just a matter of whether the original purchasers ever decide to sell. In my case I sold to Tom Garcia along with my entire wrapper collection at the time back in late 1987, one of those major "collection regrets" that we have over the years.
jim
Posted 1484310780
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#23
I never bought a light bulb from him, but I did purchase the copyright to his
"Checklist & Prices of U.S. Non-Sport Wrappers"
I planned to update it and republish it, but have not found the time yet.
Maybe if I ever get to retire.
Jeff Shep
Posted 1484329920
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#24
Wondering if anyone recalls when John Neuner's wrapper collection sold in auction? I thought it was through Lelands in '99 but I've never seen a catalog. I'm sure a lot of it was bulked out.
Anonymous
Posted 1484415060
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#25
Well I never purchased a light bulb from John, but I do own one. It is actually the exterior of the empire state building light bulb which I believe he was responsible for changing. They are huge and are perfect for ash trays, not what I used it for. John gave me one after I successfully found him a number of tougher wrappers.
I also have one of the wrappers that was cut from the Mars Attacks sheet. At the time, I was selling them for $250 to $300, so $100 a piece was quite reasonable. And as stated they are quite perfect.
I may also have the distinction of buying one of John's last wrappers. A number of years ago, I jumped on an African Jig wrapper as a Buy It Now on eBay, and it turned out to be John Neuner who was selling it. He told me that he didn't think he had any more wrappers left at that time and that he found this one hidden in one of his files. It was a perfect copy which I had no problems selling because of its condition. I've only bought one more since.
Also, on tough non sports cards, has anyone mentioned the War News Pictures dirty dozen? They do turn up occasionally, and I do have a complete set, and probably 7 or 8 of them extra right now.
Some of you probably know that I started collecting unopened boxes of the original Wacky Packages cards, just to keep me interested in mounting an almost impossible task. In the course of one year, I have turned up complete boxes of series 6 to 15, and now only need series 1 to 5, and 16. Some of them I now have multiple boxes of and I was the high bidder on the 11th series box that turned up recently on eBay. If you come upon any in your travels, keep me in mind, but they must be original series only; also uncut sheets.
Steve
