When Big Boi Met Phantogram
The trio speaks on their new Big Grams collaborative project
The word “phantogram” is used to describe a two-dimensional image that appears to be 3D, such as the Renaissance paintings of Andrea Pozzo, in which the curved ceiling of a church adds depth to the image. It also is the name of an indie Greenwich, NY duo made up of Sarah Barthel and Josh Carter, whom since 2007 have been creating a unique brand of post-trip-hop, electronic alt-rock, largely built upon samples and 808 beats. Interestingly enough, the 2D crew recently added a third dimension, teaming with Outkast’s Big Boi to form the supergroup Big Grams.
In between their first and second albums, Eyelid Movies (2009) and Voices (2014), Phantogram met up with Big Boi in 2012, lending three songs to his second solo album, Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors. After fans clamored for them to record an entire album together, not to mention constantly bumping into one another on the festival circuit, they have finally joined forces for the Big Grams project, with a little help from Skrillex, Run the Jewels, and 9th Wonder. Cuepoint spoke with the trio about the new collaboration.
Cuepoint: I’m curious if you guys each had a particular track that was your favorite, or one that you all agreed upon was the best song?
Josh Carter: For me, it changes on a daily basis. I was driving around in a Honda Accord, rolling off some 16 inch wheels, listening to the record, and yeah, I think it’s a good listen from start-to-finish.
Sarah Barthel: Amen.
Big Boi: Ditto.
I’m wondering if we can first talk about the concept behind the album cover a bit? I see it as kind of like the marriage — or at least a one night stand — between the two groups.
Sarah: It's actually derived from the seven deadly sins. The idea for the record was originally like “seven deadly songs,” and each of the songs represent a sin. So that one on the cover was the sexiest, so we decided to use that for the cover. Once you open up the album, you have a list of all the other ones as well.
So you are saying each of the songs represents one of the sins?
Sarah: Yeah.
Big Boi: In a sense.
Directly, or is that more of an abstract, open-to-interpretation kind of thing?
Josh: I’d say it’s more of an abstract, connect-the-dots, left up to your own interpretation.
Big Boi: Right, right, right.
Phantogram actually had some collaborations on Big Boi’s Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors album. How did this mature into a full on collaborative project?
Big Boi: We were recording Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors in Stankonia, and the reason they were on three songs is because everything they were doing was sounding really good. That’s what we did in like a week-and-a-half’s time. So when it came time for the guys and girls to head on back to their journey, we were like “Man, we need to do a whole album.” When the Vicious Lies album came out, the fans were like “Man, they need to do a whole album!” So we just kept throwing ideas of what we would call it. We didn’t want to call it “Phan Boy” because it wasn’t hard enough. We wanted that nine-inch dick hard Big Grams (laughs).
How long was the recording process, the writing process, and the overall creative process?
Sarah: We started in November with just the idea of collaborating and getting things rolling. We would go back and forth to Atlanta, and Big Boi would come to California and L.A. Some of the stuff was sent through email, so there were a bunch of different ways that we did it. Being in one room together makes a big difference, so we tried to get together as much as possible.
I’m actually from Vegas, and you guys both performed separate sets last year at the Life is Beautiful festival. I was curious if there was talk about doing this project at that point?
Big Boi: The process had already started and we had both crossing paths during the Outkast 20 Tour. We’d play some of the same festivals and after everything ended after the Voodoo Fest, I was like “Whatcha’ll doing?” and they were like “We’re in the studio,” and I was like “Shit, I’m coming out!” So me and my partners from Organized Noize went out and we had like 80 different beats and song ideas and we just started carving out the record from there.
It’s great that you have Run The Jewels on the album. I think back to the old Killer Mike stuff and the Purple Ribbon stuff, and I think I project like Mike and El’s may have struggled to find its audience ten or fifteen years ago. But I feel like the way that the internet has changed the game has kind of made it possible now. Would you say that is a similar situation for Big Grams?
Josh: I don’t know, I have no idea. I know I can speak for Phantogram and say that the internet has been very good to us as a band and the newer bands. An established artist like Big Boi came out when this digital age wasn’t as prevalent. So I don’t really know how to answer that for Big Grams, but the response has been awesome.
Yeah, and I think that Phantogram’s beats have always been a bit rooted in hip-hop. If you look at “Fall in Love,” the way that you chopped it reminds me of straight RZA, so this doesn’t seem like that huge of a stretch for you guys to team with Big Boi.
Josh: Yeah, hip-hop has a huge influence on what we do. I make beats almost every day of the week. And also Outkast had its influence on what we do. Both Sarah and I — she’s Aquarius and I’m Gemini — and we model ourselves as Aquemini as well. It’s just been a huge influence on us.
That’s interesting. I’m wondering if we can touch upon the excellent “Black Out Days” remix with Danny Brown as well. If I’m not mistaken, that’s one of the few tracks you did with another emcee, outside of Vicious Lies and Dangerous Rumors.
Josh: Yes and no. I mean, that’s a remix. Danny Brown was down to do it, and Leo Justi from Brazil kind of mixed things up, so that’s how it came about.
And how about Skrillex and 9th Wonder, whom both contributed beats to the project. How did these collaborations come about?
Big Boi: The 9th Wonder thing, he did a couple of records for me a while back and I had them in the vault. Once I let Sarah and Josh hear it, they were like “We really love this one,” and we figured out a way to construct in a way that would be tailor made to fit the record. That’s how it happened. Three scientists in a lab and we were just cooking stuff up. We got vials of green stuff, vials of purple stuff and we just mixed it all up, with smoke coming out of the motherfuckin’ glass and at the end of it you got a motherfuckin’ jam.
Sarah: As for Skrilly-baby — we call Skrillex “Skrilly-Baby,” we’re trying to start a trend with that — but basically we saw him at a bunch of festivals and became friends with him, as artists do when they tour. You get close to other artists. I was playing him one of the songs that we were working on, I think it was “Born to Shine,” and I was like “Hey, this is what we’re doing with Big Boi right now. Would you be interested in being a part of it?” And he was like “Fuck. Yeah. That would be amazing, I’ll drop everything and do it.” He actually used one of the beats that Josh made — the first beat actually that he made, the day before Big Boi flew into L.A. to start working on Big Grams. We were having some trouble with it, it was taking some time, so I asked Skrilly-Baby if he wanted to just fuck around with it, and he turned it into something completely different. But that was really cool, because it still has the inspiratation and influence of what a drum machine represents to us. That’s kind of what the song is about, artists in general making something out of nothing.
How far will you take Big Grams? Can we expect a full-length album or a tour?
Big Boi: This is a full-length album. People have been saying EP, but this is a full-length album. It’s seven songs and it’s 39 minutes long. Anything over five songs and at least 35 minutes is. Illmatic is 40 minutes. Miles Davis’ had a Grammy award winning record that was only five songs long, so it’s an album. But we’ve got plenty more in store. We’re going to start hitting this festival circuit and doing shows, so that’s going to be a lot of fun.
And can we look forward to new Big Boi or Phantogram albums in the near future?
Sarah: That’s what we are doing right now as well. We’ve had this little slot of time to take a break and do the Big Grams thing. Phantogram is currently working on the third record and Big is working on his next record.
Anything else you want to add?
Big Boi: Big Grams in stores right now, zippity-doo-dah!
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