Ian McCulloch: 'Car parks are a bigger threat than war'

Hi Mac. How are you?

I'm great, la'. I'm in Liverpool, the weather's lovely and I'm busy.

You seem it – preparing for Echo & the Bunnymen's tour with James and releasing Holy Ghosts, a live album of orchestral reworkings from your solo Union Chapel show last year.

I did two shows in Liverpool and the tour manager said: "There's something going on here. We've got to record the next show." Hearing those [mainly Bunnymen] songs with strings is kinda how I always thought they'd sound: real, dramatic, personal beauty, but haunted to fuck.

It's being released as a double CD with Pro Patria Mori, your first solo album in a decade (1). Is there a difference between you as a solo artist and you in the group?

I'm not doing it because I want to, it's because I have to. I need to get certain things down, so writing songs becomes my diary. With the Bunnymen there's more of a defiance, with the solo thing I go deeper, let my guard down more.

The song Me and David Bowie is a lovely eulogy to the man who most inspired you. Will people be surprised that Mac the Mouth (2) penned something so, well, humble?

I came up with that song a year and a half ago when there were all these rumours flying around that he was on his last legs, and look what I've done for his career! We don't hear anything from Bowie for years, then I write that song and all of a sudden there's a new album and an exhibition at the V&A! Unbelievable. Fuckin' skinny bastard! The only instrument in my house was this cheap bass, but I just came up with this hook. There was something Hunky Dory about it, and those lyrics just spilled out. I knew it had to start "Now hear this David Bowie" because Bowie started Song For Bob Dylan with 'Now hear this, Robert Zimmerman.' I'd have sung David Jones but it wouldn't rhyme.

In your press release you reveal that you have recently been "straightening myself out, not relying on things I was doing daily, distilling and purifying the good things in me rather than drowning them in shite". Would that be drink and drugs?

Erm, have a guess. Let's just say I decided to clean up my act. When I started doing the solo album I was in a haze, but I had these songs and I didn't want anything to get in the way of them. That lyric "Empty as a house with nothing in" is one of the best lines I've ever written. I just think it's a very haunting album.

Was the lifestyle change prompted by the notorious 2011 incident in Glasgow when you stormed offstage, lobbed a bottle towards Bunnymen guitarist Will Sergeant and later apologised for having "personal issues"?

I don't want to talk about it too much but I took my feelings of isolation on to the stage. It was all my doing. I felt like I didn't know anyone and it just spilled over. I can't undo it, but I'd have paid hundreds and thousands to see that gig. In a way it was the best gig I've ever done. But it wasn't funny. It was heartbreaking.

And yet, at 35 years and counting (3), your musical partnership with Will has lasted longer than most marriages.

We're great friends now. We give each other man hugs when we meet. For Will to actually come to me and do that – the first time was last year – was an amazing moment. I'm probably easier to be around now.

You once called the Bunnymen's 1984 opus, Ocean Rain, "the greatest album ever made". (4) Has anything come close to topping it?

Well, obviously now Pro Patria Mori is the greatest album ever made, so Ocean Rain is second. But yeah, when you've got the greatest songs in the history of time, the greatest band in the world and the greatest singer, you're obviously talking about it as a masterpiece. I listen to Ocean Rain more than What's Going On by Marvin Gaye.

Is it awkward when you're performing the greatest songs in the history of time and people mumble or shout things? You seem to have been taking on hecklers more, lately…

I don't actually mind hecklers, but most people are shit at heckling. You think: "Hang on, do you realise that you're doing verbal battle with someone who's good with words? And he's Scouse! Do you really think you're going to defeat me?!" They're wasting their time. But what gets on my wick are people who decide to phone someone in the middle of a gig. I mean, best songs, best voice. And you've come here to have a chat?! [Incredulous] What the fuck?!

Is it weird living in Liverpool surrounded by ghosts of your youth? First they rebuilt the Cavern; now they've resurrected Eric's Club (5), the scene of so many early Bunnymen gigs.

Even in the 60s, the Beatles were the biggest tourist attraction in Liverpool. People never came to see Cilla Black's house, or Tarby's [Jimmy Tarbuck's]. But they flattened the Cavern and turned it into a car park. We spend all this money bombing other countries but demolish our own heritage and replace it with fake copies. Car parks are a bigger threat than war.

Last year you recommended jailing opposition players to give your beloved Liverpool FC a better chance in the league. Any other radical ideas for the latest manager, Brendan Rodgers?

[Sadly]. I've stopped going. When I started watching them when I was a kid I felt like I was part of something. I mean, there's Gerrard and Carragher but in football now players are playing for themselves. Look at [Manchester] City with all that money. How can you feel part of that? At least Liverpool have started passing the ball more than twice in a row again. But I realised I wasn't enjoying it any more. You don't see kids playing in the street like we did. You'd play all day until it was dark and then you'd play under the street lights. The one current Liverpool player who did that is Luis Suarez, and it's no coincidence that he's got fantastic teeth. He's the Freddie Mercury of football.

Have you made up with Liam Gallagher after he threatened to tattoo his lyrics on to your forehead? (6)

[Aghast] Oh, come on! That's the kind of question Kerrang! would ask me, not the Guardian. No, I haven't spoken to him or seen him. I saw Noel the other week and he was lovely. It was something over nothing. I thought what Liam said was dead funny. Obviously having lyrics tattooed on your forehead would be a painful experience, but especially for Liam, because it wouldn't be my forehead. Nah. [Chuckling] You're just trying to stir it up again.

OK, slightly less contentiously, is it true that you were expelled from school for setting your hair on fire?

Absolutely not. I was told to get my hair cut because it could be a hazard in the chemistry lab. I hated chemistry and I was shit at it, and there were all these Bunsen burners. So I said: "I'll tell you what, I'll keep my hair long and fuck off chemistry."

And now here you are at 53, with a defiant thatch.

It's not as thick as it was. I get it cut a lot more so it's short enough to flick up a few tufts. If I let it get too long, I look like Beelzebub.

Do you think your loudmouth, sarky reputation means people don't always get your sense of humour?

Totally. If it's written down, most people can't even read, so I come across as a total … I don't think the accent helps. But I always assumed that if the journalist was laughing his head off, the world would. I started a trend, obviously, because after me all those mouthy rock stars – the Liams and whoever – came thick and fast. [A moment's pause]. I don't mean literally thick, of course.

Footnotes

(1) Pro Patria Mori first came out in 2012 as a low-key, direct-to-fan release through the internet site Pledgemusic.

(2) Mac's nickname since the 80s, when he first started showering insults on rivals, especially Bono.

(3) Echo & the Bunnymen formed in 1978. "Echo" was actually their drum machine, later replaced by Pete de Freitas, who died in a motorcycle accident in 1989.

(4) The slogan "the greatest album ever made" appeared in adverts to promote Ocean Rain.

(5) The fabled Mathew Street club lasted from 1976 to 1980, hosting many seminal gigs of the period, from the Clash to U2.

(6) Liam made this threat in retort to Mac's trademark criticism of the Beady Eye frontman's lyrics.