Host Brian Stelter talks with Will Van Sant, a staff writer for The Trace, a nonpartisan newsroom covering guns, about whether the National Rifle Association can recover after the blockbuster NRA corruption trial and the resignation of CEO Wayne LaPierre. 

The New York attorney general’s civil fraud case against the NRA alleges that the group’s top officials used the nonprofit’s charitable assets to provide for themselves. Since LaPierre’s exit from the organization, according to Van Sant, the NRA has attempted to distance itself from its former leader, characterizing itself as a victim of his siphoning—their argument, in part, that he perverted the organization. (LaPierre has denied the allegations against him.)

In addition to the damning evidence against LaPierre, Van Sant and Stelter discuss who LaPierre is, as an alleged grifter and stoker of culture wars, and if the NRA and LaPierre’s downfall ultimately even matter at this point when it comes to gun control measures. LaPierre first joined the NRA as a lobbyist and became its longtime leader of more than 30 years, overseeing the organization “as it reached its apex in terms of power and influence,” says Van Sant. And while much of the NRA’s impact on society is too far along for the verdict of this case to cause any meaningful effect, Van Sant does note: “The NRA has been the standard-bearer, right? And when the standard-bearer is exposed for wrongdoing, that is not good for the broader movement.”